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Samsson kirjoitti:Kuulema Black Templareilla pelataan sen verran paljon että niitten oma 'dexi on tulossa aika nopeasti, voi jopa olla ensimmäinen SM chapter 'dexi... (Rough Riderilta kuultu)

FlyingViking @ [url=http://forums.portent.net/showthread.php?t=134347574]Portent forums[/url] kirjoitti:
40k4 stuff at WW tonight

This is really long, but we got a lot of info tonight!
Not all of it's new, but some of it will scotch some rumours, and confirm others. And probably add confusion to others, as I skimmed a lot of stuff (for some reason, lots of people wanted to have a look at the SM codex!)

Andy and Andy from the Studio came and gave a presentation. We got to drool over a slideshow, rulebooks, Battle for Macragge, SM Codex, sprues and models.

SM Codex (pre-production, but looks close to final, with all artwork in colour, etc). The codex is released on 30th Oct, with the Command Squad box and the new Attack Bike. I think the Army Box is released the same day, and judging by the photo of the box cover, it includes 20 tac marines, 20 assault marines, some scouts, a razorback, and the command squad. And a limited edition vet, who has a plume on his helmet (presumably for dusting the cobwebs on the ceiling of the razorback). There might be some bikes as well.

Things I noticed in the codex...
Librarians get about 7 powers. I think Smite (renamed to something else) is free, the rest cost points.
Jump troops cost 22pts basic
Terminators cost 40pts basic
Dreadnoughts only get 4 weapon options. Plasma cannons aren't a standard option anymore.
Whirlwinds get 2 types of ordnance - current rules, plus a minefield laying missile.

I didn't read all the traits stuff, but one that caught my eye was that Dev squads can be Elite as well as Heavy, but if they are Elite, they have to buy either Tank Hunters or Infiltrate.
There were examples of "notable chapters" and the traits that they have (similar to the IG notable regiments in the IG codex). I don't think that included DA, BA or SW, but did include Salamanders, BT, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists etc.
Each trait modifies the army list, and gives an advantage and a disadvantage (didn't read this fully, so I might be wrong on how it works)

The Shield with built-in Bolter weapon everyone's been on about is ONLY for Chapter Champion. It's not going to be a weapon available to squads or ICs.
There is a very cool new Champion model, which means the Emperors Champion will get resculpted as well
There is a photo of the Ravenguard captain Shrike. Very nice. Paired Lightning Claws with jump pack. His arms are raised in a sort of crucified pose (or maybe he's a scarecrow )

The command sprues are very funky. There are all the combi-weapons, and a storm bolter. A powerfist, melta, plasmagun, flamer, and a lightning claw (left hand, I think).
A banner, a load of shoulder pads including a Deathwatch one. Iron Halo, lots of scrolls, seals etc. I did like the belt attachments - one is very much like the roman centurion belts, with 4/5 strips hanging over the groin. Little badges etc as well, like terminator medals and such. Bits of apothecaries.

The new command squad is superb. It's all metallic, with a couple of separate arms so there's a bit of poseability. I fell in love with the power-armoured vet with the lightning claws.

There were two versions of the Wave Serpent, and two of the Whirlwind (different missiles in the launcher). The Whirlwind is due out end of November.

We didn't *cough* see any artwork of the Tyranids due out in April. We were told everything is waaay cool and gorgeous, but we're not allowed to see any of it. We were allowed to be told that the carnifex has something like 80 pieces on the sprue (quote: "our sculptors are mad"). The genestealer sprue makes 4 stealers, and contains 60 parts.

We also didn't see some decent pictures of the new Terminators. Twice. We weren't told that they will be on 40mm bases. Nosiree, we weren't told that.


Battle For Macragge - the clip-together models look rather good. Ok, so you can't model them how you like, but they're good quality miniatures. they also want to sell them in toy shops, hence, no glue included or needed.
The A5 rulebook is the first 90 pages of the main rulebook - the exact same rules, and the little potted profiles of each race (the DE only get half a page of fluff as far as I can tell, but at least they're still there).
The starter book is, as Mr C put it "Dick and Jane". Laid out even simpler than the LotR Battles with Miniatures magazines were.
And no, the A5 book will not be sold separately. They want us to buy the hardback

The SM megaforce isn't due out till Aug 05 according to the slideshow.

The v4 codex FAQs are going on the web today/tomorrow. I got a printout of all of them.
Main points for me...
SW Codex: Stormcaller will still be useable if you charge, and you still count as in cover (the TAR wording seemed to nerf this) - the FAQ doesn't explicitly state this, but it mentions that if you charge, you go first, no matter what grenades your victims have (unless they're in cover, in which case everyone is at I10 I guess).

Necrons: Monolith's living metal ignores all bonus penetration modifiers. Including the +1 for Tank Hunters, and extra Str attacks from Talos.
When it's immobilised, any CC hits will be automatic, just like any other immobilised vehicle.

DE codex: Indicates that wych weapons halve the WS of your opponent when you hit them, as well as when they hit you. The original wording gave the strong impression that it was only when the enemy hit the wyches (which didn't usually make a lot of difference... WS3 or WS4 halved still hit wyches on a 4+, but WS5 went from 3+ to 4+), but now Wyches will be able to hit anyone with WS < 8 on a 3+.

One thing I checked with Andy: combi-bolters are rapid-fire so wouldn't usually be able to shoot then assault, but if you fire both barrels, it's Assault 2. So you can charge after shooting with it (well, once a game, anyway)

If you cause more wounds than there are models in a unit, you get to choose ONE model to allocate a (saveable) wound to, and make a saving throw. You can't allocate an armour-penetrating hit to him - the victim can still choose which models die to AP hits.
Then you roll all the other saving throw dice. (which usually means there's 2 chances to kill the specified model, as he's included in the mass dice throw as well).

According to the latest WD articles, Necron destroyers will get the turbo boost, and will have an invul save if they use it.
The sweeping advance rule is as follows:
Test morale. If fail, both sides roll I+D6. If combat loser doesn't get the highest result, he's massacred. So a draw on the I roll is a massacre as well (this is different to what the preview PDF said).

Jump troops cost 22pts basic
Terminators cost 40pts basic
Dreadnoughts only get 4 weapon options. Plasma cannons aren't a standard option anymore.
Whirlwinds get 2 types of ordnance - current rules, plus a minefield laying missile.

I didn't read all the traits stuff, but one that caught my eye was that Dev squads can be Elite as well as Heavy,

There is a photo of the Ravenguard captain Shrike.

I did like the belt attachments - one is very much like the roman centurion belts, with 4/5 strips hanging over the groin.

There were two versions of the Wave Serpent,

The A5 rulebook is the first 90 pages of the main rulebook - the exact same rules, and the little potted profiles of each race (the DE only get half a page of fluff as far as I can tell, but at least they're still there).

The v4 codex FAQs are going on the web today/tomorrow. - -

DE codex: Indicates that wych weapons halve the WS of your opponent when you hit them, as well as when they hit you.

One thing I checked with Andy: combi-bolters are rapid-fire so wouldn't usually be able to shoot then assault, but if you fire both barrels, it's Assault 2. So you can charge after shooting with it (well, once a game, anyway)

According to the latest WD articles, Necron destroyers will get the turbo boost, and will have an invul save if they use it.

The sweeping advance rule is as follows:
Test morale. If fail, both sides roll I+D6. If combat loser doesn't get the highest result, he's massacred. So a draw on the I roll is a massacre as well (this is different to what the preview PDF said).

The Captain kirjoitti:

One thing I checked with Andy: combi-bolters are rapid-fire so wouldn't usually be able to shoot then assault, but if you fire both barrels, it's Assault 2. So you can charge after shooting with it (well, once a game, anyway)

Ja tunnetustihan combi-aseilla saa ampua kahdella piipulla yhtä aikaa... since when?

Morhgoz kirjoitti: luulen että tässä tarkoitetaan combi- bolteria eli sitä mika on Kaaoksen terminaattoreilla...

Morhgoz kirjoitti:

The Captain kirjoitti:

One thing I checked with Andy: combi-bolters are rapid-fire so wouldn't usually be able to shoot then assault, but if you fire both barrels, it's Assault 2. So you can charge after shooting with it (well, once a game, anyway)

Ja tunnetustihan combi-aseilla saa ampua kahdella piipulla yhtä aikaa... since when?

luulen että tässä tarkoitetaan combi- bolteria eli sitä mika on Kaaoksen terminaattoreilla...

jamopower kirjoitti:"combi-bolter also known as combi bolter"

Jotain tuohon malliinhan siellä lukee

The Captain kirjoitti:ei pelkoa pakoon juoksemisesta

K-Tana kirjoitti:Anyway, to the point. Last Thursday (the 26th) I was privileged enough to attend a presentation on 4th edition 40k and other future projects by Andy Hoare (one of the developers) at Warhammer world. I thought I'd better inform you guys as to the contents of this event. Note that no cameras of any kind were allowed, so no pics guys. Andy said that all this stuff was classed as restricted by GW, and if it gets out into the Internet, he looses his job.

The bulk of the event was the presentation of 4th edition to us, but i'll skip around that as 4th edition is out, and you've heard enough. However, there was also at the presentation, a copy of the 4th edition Space Marine codex (although in a pre-release version in a ring binder), a few completed boxes of the Battle for Macragge, and several new miniatures were on display. I'll go through each thing, one at a time.

The Battle for Macragge Box Set
There were two of these on display, each containing one Space Marine sprue, two tyranid sprues, a aquilla sprue, a blast template sprue, two range rulers, dice, a rules book and a missions booklet. The sprues contained many accessories beyond the models; power field projectors, a fusion core, homing beacon etc were included for use in the missions. In the box you get 10 marines, 1 pilot (the case he holds contains ultramarines geneseed by the way), 8 genestealers, 8 termagaunts, and the other niceties. As for people saying the models look static and boring, I saw the models in the display cabinet fully painted, and they don’t look half as bad as everyone makes out. The tyranids are virtually indistinguishable from the current models, and the space marines aren’t that bad.

The rules booklet is a cut down version of the full rule book, although that said, it contains all of the rules present in the full rulebook that are necessary to play the battle for Macragge game, but in an A5 format and with minimal fluff. It also has a small section on what you need to do should you wish to continue collecting.

The missions booklet contains 6 missions detailing the crash and recovery of the geneseed in the aquilla. They are designed to ease the new user into the game step by step, while remaining exciting and fun to play.

The 4th Edition Space Marine Codex

Well, as you can imagine, there was a lot of interest in this, and thus I didn’t get the best of looks, but I’ll summarise what I know below.

The primary objective of the space marine project is too make space marines cool, and in particular, ultramarines cool. They have received a lot of bad press recently, so the book was designed to be very Ultra-heavy.

All the artwork within is remarkable. The front cover in particular is awesome.

There is plenty of fluff within, but nothing radical and new.

HQ- primarily the same as before. I few points tweaks, particularly the chaplain to make him less of the essential commander he was. Command squads can no longer take techmarines, they have their own entry. Librarians can now choose from a list of powers to purchase.

Elites – Terminators have dropped in price, and can deep strike for free (see drop pods in the troops section). Techmarines have their entry, and can be accompanied by servitors similar to those in the inquisition books. Veteran marines now have much more variety of wargear to beef them up somewhat, and can take veteran skills..

Troops – Little change. Points values the same. Tactical squads can now take multimeltas and plasma cannons; scouts can no longer take auto cannons. Transports are largely the same, except for the inclusion on drop pods. These cost 30 points, and allow the unit (either 10 marines, 5 terminators (but they get drop pods for free) or 1 dreadnought). The pod remains in play after it drops (it has an armour value and such) but units cannot re-embark. It can be upgraded to have a death wind missile launcher. Tarkoittaako tämä että GW tekee muovisen Drop pod mallin?

Fast Attack – Once again, no real changes here, except that Land speeder tornados and typhoons no longer have a separate entry, and are now upgrades for standard land speeders, meaning you could have a squadron of all tornados if you wanted. Assault squads have a slight cost drop.

Heavy Support – Again, pretty much as you’d expect, the same as before. Land Raider crusaders now have an entry, and whirlwinds have increased in price, but can now be upgraded to fire Castellan missiles. These are pretty cool – you nominate a point to fire at, scatter as normal, and then place the ordinance template down. This area is now covered in mines, which detonate if anything walks across it on a 4+, dealing a S6 AP- hit to the unit, or back armour of the tank.

Special Characters – Ultramarines heavy, with Chief Librarian Tigurius, Chaplain Cassius, Marneus Calgar, Tyranic War Veterans (these are a squad), Honour guard, Imperial Fists Commander Lysanader, and Raven Guard Leader Shryke. All of these had pictures of the models, or were present in the display case (except for Calgar, I presume is model isn’t finished yet) and all look absolutely amazing, but they are very restricted images. I didn’t get much time to absorb the rules of any of these, except that calgar now has an Iron Halo, and the Honour Guard consist of a high level commander, Company Champion (a non-black templar emperor’s champion) and 2-7 Honour guards, all of which are very nasty.

Genetics System- This is what you want to hear! When creating a chapter of your own, you must choose from one of 8 characters, either wise, tenacious, furious etc. You then choose whether your chapter has a minor genetic deviance, significant deviance of major deviance. If you choose minor, you must select one Benefit from your geneseed’s character, and one minor problem. (note that the disadvantages are not grouped by geneseed character, they are just general lists) If you have significant deviance, you must choose two advantages from you geneseed character, and 1 major disadvantage. If you have Major deviance, you may select one advantage from your geneseed character, and any one other advantage, but must also select 1 minor and 1 major disadvantage.

It’s a very tidy system, with example advantages including being allowed to field bike squads as troop, or for your tactical squads to be allowed to select various veteran skills. Example minor disadvantages include not being allowed allies, and major disadvantages placing restrictions on tanks and the like. This section also includes example genetic makeup for the major chapters, including the blood ravens, but missing are the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Black Templar, all of which will get separate books.

Release Timeline

The Battle for Macragge Set is die out October, the Space Marine range is due between November and July next year, the plastic wave serpent (which I saw, and looks very nice) is due out late July, and project Tyranids begins Early August.

Future Models

I got a good look at the new veterans and the new space marine commander sprues, both of which are fantastically models, and full of extras. The Plastic Whirlwind looks very good, with a choice of castellan and standard missiles. The plastic waveserpent is good, but not a huge departure from the one available from forge world.

The new genestealer pictures you may have seen on the Internet are not in fact, the new genestealers. They are in fact the genestealers available in the Macragge box set. The real new genestealers, which we were not allowed to see, are going to be on 60 (!) piece sprues, with each sprue creating only 4 stealers.

The new plastic terminator pictures you have seen were also shown at the presentation, but we were also allowed to see pictures of terminators with heavy weapons, and the squad commander. They are excellent pieces of modelling, and will be released with 40mm bases like the grey knight terminators.

No pictures were available of project Tyranids, but Andy has seen a completed carnifex and it is “as tall as a dreadnought, as long as a rhino, and look very, very angry”.

The sketches you may have seen of a “Hive Mind Librarian” are not a new model. They were in fact, early sketches of Chief Librarian Tigurius.

Well, that’s pretty much all I can remember. If anything else comes to me, I’ll tell you, and feel free to ask any questions, but no grantees I’ll know the answer.

K-Tana kirjoitti: scouts can no longer take auto cannons.